AL EP 17: Joey Gilkey – How to Develop a Ruthless Mindset as a CEO

Show Notes

Connect with Joey Gilkey and Apex Revenue here – 

• Web: https://www.apexrevenue.com 
• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/joeygilkey 
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/JoeyGilkey
• Youtube:   https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGTBVeYZ6v6m_573jJYu7ng

Episode Transcript

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:32:22

Hey, everybody, this is Jessie Michael Moore, agency and transformation coach and founder of Mission Control. Creator of leverage for growth and I’m Lucas James, founder of Twist Attire, which scaled from 0 to $200,000 a month with my own agency. We are the host of leverage for growth, podcast agency leverage and Episodes. We know that in order to scale your agency successfully, there are multiple shifts that need to happen within the founders mindsets, skill sets, and leadership styles.

00:00:32:24 – 00:01:03:24

We are on a mission to interview marketing and PR agency owners on their journey to six, seven and eight figures and leverage the lessons from their journey to save you time, energy and money. In order for you to get your agency to the next level. If you find value in these episodes, watch the case study video to learn more about leverage growth and how we successfully scale agencies quickly at Niche in Control Decomp case study at Niche in Control Accommodation.

00:01:03:26 – 00:01:31:09

You are now listening to leverage for growth. Hey everybody. This is Jesse Gilmore, founder of Niche and Control and creator of leverage for growth. Welcome to the agency Leverage Edition. Today I am here with Joey Gilkey and founder of Apex Revenue, formerly a sales driven agency that works with established B2B service companies to build their go to market sales strategy, assemble their sales department, and grow revenue as their fractional VP of sales.

00:01:31:12 – 00:02:05:04

Welcome to our show today. What’s up Jesse? Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, absolutely. So can you tell our audience a little bit about the history and background of your agency? Sure. Yeah. So apex revenue, formerly known as sales from an agency, as some people probably know, the brand. I started a little under three years ago. we’ll hit the three year mark here this summer, but, start a little bit of three years ago after, my last company, which we exited, in 2019, which was at the time that companies called tribe, we were an outbound sales agency.

00:02:05:04 – 00:02:24:22

You’re probably getting hit up in the DMs by, like, ten of them a day at this point. they weren’t cool back then, so we were a little bit early. but actually, because of that, I had the opportunity. I got out of a non-compete, when I exited, the exit. Didn’t go how I wanted it to. but it freed me up to build something else without, any sort of contractual obligation.

00:02:24:22 – 00:02:45:10

So I ended up building sales driven agency, which is now become apex revenue. So I started about three years ago. Our goal is to be somewhat of a, a consulting firm that builds sales operations. And then it kind of morphed to doing everything. So where we will build the sales operation and strategy, we will hire your salespeople for you.

00:02:45:11 – 00:03:08:16

We will train your salespeople, and then we’ll actually install, a fractional sales leader to kind of lead managing, training them on going. It’s been a wild ride. I will say, in the past three years, I can only imagine, you know, in three years, you’ve grown pretty rapidly. hum. How many, how big is your team right now?

00:03:08:18 – 00:03:29:16

Hard to put a number on it. people ask that all the time. as of today, it’s shorter by three. Just because we have, we had some evaluations that didn’t go super well for some employees. but, Yeah. So we’re probably right now because we have full time contractors as well that I count,

00:03:29:19 – 00:03:54:00

W-2 11. But if you count full time contractors that are, like, legitimately involved on a day to day basis, we’re probably at about 28. Wow. Yeah. Yep. And that’s a lot of growth, within the three years. you know what? What were some of the either obstacles or kind of pivots maybe that you had to make within those three years to be able to grow, to the size that you are today?

00:03:54:02 – 00:04:14:08

quite a few. So I made some poor decisions in the middle. You know, I would say we’re kind of on, like, phase three or V3, of of sales driven agency slash apex. I call it apex from now on. We just rebranded two months ago, so I’m still getting used to it. Sure. so out the gate, when we actually started it, the goal was not to be big.

00:04:14:09 – 00:04:43:28

It was not to, you know, you know, our goal is not to, like, get into the eight figure range and, our goal has obviously become that. And that’s become more of a benchmark for us. But when we started it, the goal was to like be hyper profitable, be very selective with who we work with, solve a very big specific problem for a select few of clients, and, basically run a lifestyle company that looked a lot like a consulting firm who did some services.

00:04:44:00 – 00:04:59:08

now, when we did that, I was kind of the fraction of VP of sales, if you will. I was bringing the strategy, I was solving the problems. And I had a, a minority partner at the time who was basically the implementation of my strategy. I would create the strategy. He would then try to implement it with the client.

00:04:59:08 – 00:05:21:21

It was a great relationship. it was me. Him in a in a virtual assistant. And we got to seven figures with just the three of us. you know, our, I guess two and a half, really, at the time. And so was hyper profitable. And I think that my. And I won’t call it a mistake, but I will say, a hiccup or an obstacle on the road was, was basically version two of this, which was scale it, grow it.

00:05:21:23 – 00:05:45:18

Let’s blow this thing up kind of thing. and that required a lot more hiring and required a lot more process that required, roles that I didn’t hire for, that I should have hired for, especially operational, like, leadership type roles. My CEO now is is that role. But we grew really fast, by the nature of being really good at sales for clients.

00:05:45:18 – 00:06:08:18

We also are very good for sales for ourselves. And so we can basically grow on demand. the challenge with that is when you grow on demand and you don’t have operational efficiency to service those clients, then your client success starts to drop. So in our first V1 of the company, client success was literally 100%. We would get the goal, we would deliver the deliverable and hit the goals.

00:06:08:18 – 00:06:30:25

We wanted for every client, no matter what. Because I was involved, as we grew, client success dropped down to like 70%. which was a massive issue for me because I’m a perfectionist in some ways. And so I hated that. But we grew really fast. So top line guru, bottom line shrunk, right in terms of, percentage wise.

00:06:30:27 – 00:06:56:00

But that was the cost of growing and hiring and, and all those types of things. So that version two was a very painful season and still is like still feeling the ramifications of V2. I’ve just fixing and operationalizing and streamline streamlining a lot of things. and then version three came around, which was okay. Operational efficiency cut the fat burrito principle 8020 rule.

00:06:56:03 – 00:07:16:22

Don’t do everything for everyone. You can’t solve every problem. Let’s be excellent world class at the few problems that we know we want to solve. and that has proven to be the model that we’re really running with and seeing a lot of success and naturally, a lot more profitable because of it. That’s awesome. I like how you’re talking about your business in different versions or phases.

00:07:16:24 – 00:07:35:28

because a lot of times people will take version one and they’ll hold on to it and say they’re in version do, but they’re not actually making the switches. how do you, you know, this is not obviously your first business. So, how do you know when to make those pivots? you know, sometimes it’s probably proactive and other times more reactive.

00:07:35:28 – 00:07:57:29

But, how do you know when you’re, like, version one is done? Let’s move on to version. Well, there’s a yeah, it’s a great question, cause I think there’s a lot of levers you can pull on in business. And so the first and most important one I would argue is the product market fit. And so if, if, if you think that you have product market fit, but the market isn’t naturally coming to you and responding to your product, then you don’t.

00:07:57:29 – 00:08:18:02

And so you have to pivot until you find the right messaging, the right business model, the right positioning that enables you to even get the opportunity in the door to even service them is is a whole nother thing. And so those are levers you’ve got to figure out if you don’t have opportunities and sales then it doesn’t. Operationalizing and streamlining doesn’t matter.

00:08:18:07 – 00:08:35:17

And so that’s the first thing you gotta really consider. If you don’t have that, then you have to be willing to pivot and move and change and all those types of things. the second is once you get people in the door, the second lever is getting the success that you sold, right. What is the thing that I sold and how do I do it?

00:08:35:19 – 00:09:05:12

Right. And so if if I’m getting people in door but they’re not seeing success, well, then I need to be able to pivot how we deliver. And the next level is okay if we’re getting people in the door and we’re delivering success, but profitability is suffering, well, then I can get top line going and I can operationalize what we do, but if bottom line isn’t there, then I need to to either change my pricing model that increase my pricing, or I need to become more efficient and find profit drivers in the business to drive.

00:09:05:12 – 00:09:26:19

Bottom line up. and that’s a lever you can pull out and be willing to pivot how you model your business. And then the final one is kind of like your scale, you know, can I do this and can I get things off of SEO and leadership’s plate that can still drive revenue and have product market fit, deliver client success, deliver profitability, and that’s when you really kind of get to that last lever.

00:09:26:19 – 00:09:43:21

So there’s a bunch of different areas you can pivot. I’m still pivoting to this day, and I will probably still pivot for the next three years until I really land on, like all the things, if that makes sense. Yeah, it’s a journey. Yeah. And I think that people are afraid of that. I think people are fearful of of what?

00:09:43:21 – 00:10:01:23

My mentor. So this to me is a really powerful I think sometimes we’re afraid of pivoting and changing the model because we have people dependent on us, and we don’t want to let people down, and we don’t want to give people whiplash inside the organization. Well, my mentor said this phrase to me. It rocked my world because I was like, I don’t want to.

00:10:02:00 – 00:10:23:21

I don’t want to pivot again and give these people whiplash who’ve been here for the past two pivots, and we’re just now getting some traction. He said, Joey, if you are in the business of hiring smart people and you pivot and you either have to let them go or they leave because the pivot people who are good at what they do land on their feet every time, every time.

00:10:23:23 – 00:10:46:13

Because businesses who don’t pivot and don’t change to be necessary do not. Statistically speaking, most businesses fail. And so you have to do not what you think is best for everyone, but you have to do what is required for success, right at the end of the day, if you don’t do what is required, you can’t be successful. That’s the only prerequisite to success, right?

00:10:46:14 – 00:11:08:06

And so I think that’s the thing that really clicked for me of like, I’ve got to be that wartime CEO sometimes that makes hard decisions and does things that makes people uncomfortable and even be willing to have people leave and or get terminated because they don’t fit the future model. And I’ve got to kind of be the savage person that does that, whether that seems cold hearted or not, there’s a lot of jobs on the line.

00:11:08:06 – 00:11:29:03

If I don’t get this right, not just the 1 or 2 or 5 or 7 people that might be affected by this pivot. Like, what about the future? People of this company, like their jobs are on the line if I don’t get this right. So long winded. But that’s kind of how I, I see pivots. I, I love it.

00:11:29:05 – 00:11:52:02

there is kind of like this determination in an entrepreneur where they go from trying to win to playing to win. And, the playing to win is like based around commitment. And what I hear from you is just like being committed to making the pivots necessary for long term vision to come in, as opposed to the way it feels like when you having to let go people or change.

00:11:52:08 – 00:12:09:18

What’s interesting about the market is back to that statement of like, doing what is required to be successful is the market doesn’t care if you tried your best. The market doesn’t care if you’re a good person. I mean, like, I think bad people eventually get found out, but the market doesn’t care. If you do right by your employees, the market doesn’t care.

00:12:09:21 – 00:12:27:22

Right? And so if you want to be in existence and continue to provide jobs and make impact on your clients and make the money and wealth that transforms your life and the generations behind you, you’ve got to be willing to do what is required. And in the in the market only cares about you doing what is required for the market to buy your product, and you deliver that product to the market.

00:12:27:25 – 00:12:51:22

passionate about that, about that subject, because I think we’re too soft. Yeah, yeah. Oh that’s awesome. And I know on your journey you’ve learned a whole bunch of things. You’ve already given a lot of advice for anybody that’s listening. if someone might be maybe like 1 or 2 steps, behind you, like, they’re, they’re just maybe going through a different phase or they’re making a change.

00:12:51:24 – 00:13:17:03

what would be kind of like some advice that you would give them? Maybe the shortcut their way? Yeah. I think, make decisions that drive profitability. do not continue to invest in things to buy yourself time for it to turn over. Right. What I mean by that is, is if something’s not working, don’t continue to invest in something, especially when you’re early and young.

00:13:17:06 – 00:13:50:29

Don’t continue to invest in something just to buy yourself time to like. If I just continue to stay alive enough in this particular world, I can. I’ll figure it out eventually. Like, no, like at the fat, when you need to cut the fat and go make the decisions you need to make. So that’s, that’s that’s one, some other advice is, is kind of along the same lines I’ve been talking about, like, don’t be ruthless in the sense of lacking empathy and lacking kindness, but be ruthless in the sense of making decisions that you need to make.

00:13:51:02 – 00:14:09:28

the there is an 85% fail rate of businesses for a reason, and so 85% of people who start a business will not be here. And you’re five. And that’s just statistics. It’s not even me being a jerk. It’s just like you’re 85% of you listening to this more than likely won’t be here if you don’t do the things that the market requires of you.

00:14:09:28 – 00:14:30:28

And so you have to make ruthless, war time CEO decisions. is a really good book called The Hard Thing About Hard Things, where he talks about read that book and then be like, oh crap. Yeah, my my decisions are not that hard compared to this guy’s decisions he made. And he made it out fine. So you’ve got to kind of become that wartime CEO that really does what what is required of you.

00:14:31:00 – 00:14:52:06

and that might ruthless I think is, has a negative connotation to it. I think ruthless just means, living a life and making decisions that are based on a conviction that you possess. Awesome. Yeah. So what, what is the best way for people to get in touch with you or do you have any offers for them that they can take advantage of.

00:14:52:08 – 00:15:10:25

Yeah, I mean I’ve, I’ve been in the space a long time. So I’ve, I’ve gone through a bunch of offers and tried to find my place in this world of, like, you know, my main businesses were expensive. So I think that’s, that’s a challenge, right? So apex revenue, it’s, you know, a retainer base, 12 months commitment ten came on some.

00:15:10:25 – 00:15:28:01

You’re looking at at least 120,000 investment there. So I think if you want a sales operation built and you want someone to lead your sales operation for you, go to apex. Reddit.com. if you’re in the 7 or 8 figures and you’re looking for a more mastermind community, I have a men’s only, agency SEO mastermind community.

00:15:28:03 – 00:15:45:04

It’s nothing against women. It’s just what I’m passionate about. Building leaders in the category of men. that’s called the best damn agency mastermind. you can find us at best. Damn mastermind.com. We’re launching a smaller one, but I don’t have a whole lot to send you to at this particular moment. You can reach out to me if you’re not quite at seven figures, and you want to scale to seven figures.

00:15:45:04 – 00:16:22:00

But I think Jesse also has amazing offers for that as well. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for, coming to our, our show today. And for anybody that’s listening, I’ll include all the links for, Joey and, and his companies and the show notes below. Thank you so much. Thanks, Jesse. Agency owners, if you want to transform your agency to sustain and grow without your direct involvement, where you can stop working in the business and switch to working on the business where you can regain control of your time, delegate effectively, get paid what you’re worth, and have your team run the day to day.

00:16:22:07 – 00:16:40:08

Go to niche in control.com/case study right now to learn more about leverage for growth, you can book a free strategy session with us to look at your systems. Understand what needs to be done in order for you to scale and get a free strategic plan for the next year. To live the life of entrepreneurship that you’ve always dreamed about.

00:16:40:11 – 00:17:04:25

Go to niche incontrol.com/case study that is niche incontrol.com/case of me. Now you.

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