00:00:00:00 – 00:00:05:13
I.
00:00:05:15 – 00:00:27:07
Hey, everybody, this is Jesse Gilmore, agency transformation coach and founder of Niche In Control, author of the Agency Owners Guide to Freedom and the creator of leverage for growth. I’m the host of the leverage for growth podcast, and I know that in order for you to scale your agency successfully, there are multiple shifts that need to happen within your mindset, skill set, and leadership style.
00:00:27:09 – 00:00:51:18
I am on a mission to interview marketing and PR agency owners on their journey to six, seven and eight figures and leverage the lessons from their journey to save you time, energy, and money to get your agency to the next level. If you find value in these episodes, watch the case study video to learn more about leverage for growth and how we successfully scale agencies at niche and control economy assets.
00:00:51:20 – 00:00:59:02
That is Niche in control.com/case study.
00:00:59:04 – 00:01:03:17
US.
00:01:03:19 – 00:01:26:02
You are now listening to leverage for growth. Hey everybody. This is Jesse Gilmore, the founder of Niche in Control and the creator of leverage for growth. Welcome to the agency Leverage edition. Today I am here with Nick deck, the founder of Heroes and Sidekicks, a done for you agency solution to build powerful, affordable, world class teams. Thanks for coming to our show today, Nick.
00:01:26:04 – 00:01:42:06
Thanks, Jesse. Happy to be here. Excited to to chat through this stuff. This is this is exciting stuff for me. You know, these are the things that I eat, sleep and breathe. So excited to chat through it with you today. Yeah. And and the the call that we had had prior to this, which I rewatched just a little while ago.
00:01:42:12 – 00:02:05:06
I got really excited because we have a lot of alignment when it comes to both agencies and teams and team structure and, and really setting up founders for freedom. So I’m really excited to dive into that. But since majority of people probably listening this don’t know who you are and you’re a bit about your agency. Can you tell us a little bit more about the history and background of your agency?
00:02:05:08 – 00:02:34:08
Yeah, so I think it’s probably a good idea to start a couple stages earlier and actually go into, you know, right now we run a talent agency. But before that, we ran a seven figure for, you know, full service digital marketing agency focused primarily on B2B tech. But one of the things that stood out for me is I grew up in the agency world, so I’ve been in the space for probably 12 years now, started my own, I don’t know, probably 5 or 6 years ago.
00:02:34:14 – 00:02:54:20
And we went in our first year from two, 2 to 36 people and a bunch of clients and a bunch of money and all that good stuff. And, you know, there’s a lot of wonderful things that came along with that. I had to fast track my learning and my growth as an entrepreneur. But, you know, there’s a lot of trials and tribulations when you when you’re dealing with that type of growth.
00:02:55:01 – 00:03:14:16
There’s a lot that you learn along the way that you just if you’re going to survive, you have to and have to do it. So we now I basically have come from a position where we know the ins and outs of operating an agency. And so at this point, we ended up with a solution of our we build, like Jesse alluded to, I’ll help agency owners build their team.
00:03:14:16 – 00:03:33:03
So we’re we’re going to go ahead and source and vet and onboard and co-manage that talent with you. So that you’ve got really great, really good people there to support the ins and outs of the day to day. And but you got an agency team there to support you as well. You know, we can talk about the offering a little bit more later.
00:03:33:03 – 00:03:57:17
But you know we’re we’re a agency ops and talent people through and through today. And because you’ve been in the agency space for about 12 years now and you hear I was in psychics is not your first agency. Correct. That’s correct. Yeah. With the seven figure agency and you grew to a really rapid rate. What were some of those things like certain milestones that you had hit?
00:03:57:18 – 00:04:20:09
We’ll start with the previous agency and then this one. And what were some of those like milestones that stood out to you not only based around like revenue and growth and lessons along the way, but yeah, it took a little bit about, you know, that journey. Yeah, absolutely. So what I quickly so I started with myself and my wife, that was it was two people and she was the the creative side and I was the performance marketing side.
00:04:20:09 – 00:04:39:00
And basically we quickly learned that even though we had a lot of value and a lot of experience to bring to the table, we couldn’t do very much of it was just going to be us. And so we started to we started to hire. And what we recognized is that we we thought that we had to do that.
00:04:39:00 – 00:04:56:08
Traditional tried and true, you know, W-2 or at least domestic talent, full time in-house acting. And so we we ended up because we were able to grow so quickly. We ended up just doing that over and over and over, and we ended up in a position where we basically had a bunch of cash coming in, and we were paying it right back out.
00:04:56:08 – 00:05:22:00
So that was one of the things that I recognized very early on, because we grew so rapidly, was even even those big, you know, high ticket agencies that are flaunting big revenue numbers and things like that, sometimes they’re not making all that much money. I was a perfect example of it. But, you know, sitting in a situation where honestly, like, we weren’t making that much more at seven figures and she and I were making it when it was just she and I doing all the fulfillment because we hadn’t built the team appropriately.
00:05:22:00 – 00:05:48:06
We had just bought a bunch of highly paid, highly skilled people in there, and we weren’t maximizing our return on the investment in the team. So that was probably one of the biggest learning lessons. And I can unpack that to varying degrees here. I can, I can go and go to town on this one. We’re going to have to write that one down, because that I think that one of the greatest things in I was looking at your story and obviously I follow you on social media.
00:05:48:06 – 00:06:15:18
And we had a whole conversation about some of the things that you had unpacked as well. But the lessons from your previous agency set up, the need for and also the passion for the things that you’re doing and heroes and sidekicks. and did you find that as well, like when you’re going through like, it’s like that first agency was like, you earning your stripes, you know, and you’re like, yeah, you had said in previously, like chewing on glass and and smiling about it or.
00:06:15:21 – 00:06:35:10
Yeah. it is that what led towards the, the need and, and this new agency here. Absolutely. So what we ended up doing was because we had, we we thought we were looking at our, our, you know, financials. We’re looking at the economic status of the business. And we’re like, okay, so there’s a lot of room here to adjust some things.
00:06:35:12 – 00:06:56:02
And, you know, really dramatically improve our profitability. There were bandwidth constraints. I think that was the number one thing. It was like when you have one of the things that we we assessed really early on was there’s it’s a big leap from one highly paid W-2 or full time employee to the next one. So you really got to stretch them thin and then you can justify that next investment.
00:06:56:02 – 00:07:16:09
And so what we ended up doing was we started working with offshore folks and like really taking that very seriously. unfortunately we we learned our lesson the hard way that there are very few people that understand the marketing space, that the agency space. And so we worked with, you know, staffing companies and other agencies to try and fill our talent, you know, fill our challenges.
00:07:16:11 – 00:07:50:16
And it just didn’t work out. So we ended up building this internal recruitment engine, and we ended up finding really good for folks and for talent and long story short, our profitability issues, all the disappeared, our bandwidth constraints, all that just disappeared because we were able to really strategically place some really good level but affordable talent underneath some of those higher paid resources and really maximize, like I said, maximize the return on investment, your talent, because I think that that’s one of the biggest lessons overall is like, if you’re going to pay somebody to do something for you, make sure that they’re you’re leveraging them to the best of your abilities.
00:07:50:16 – 00:08:10:17
And so that’s one of the things that we help our clients with pretty much every day. It’s like, how do we maximize everybody’s output? You know, if you’re going to spend 80 K or 100 K, you’re on a higher level strategist. How do we make sure that they’re doing just the core focus strategic work? And how do we put the, you know, the execution team underneath them to empower them to do the things that they’re engaged with?
00:08:10:22 – 00:08:32:13
And so that’s a that’s what we recognized in our own agency. It was like we only needed a few really core, strategic, high level players. And a lot of the execution could be done by overseas talent. You know, as long as you found the right overseas talent. And so we completely dismantled our agency. We rebuild those teams. And like I said, profitability issues basically disappeared.
00:08:32:18 – 00:08:51:14
Bandwidth constraints disappeared. I don’t want to say disappeared, as in they didn’t exist at all. But compared to where we are before, it was night and day difference. And so what ended up happening is we caught the attention of some of the other agencies that our networks and folks that we had been collaborating with from a strategic partnership level, and they said, hey, you guys saw what you did for you guys, can you do that for us?
00:08:51:14 – 00:09:05:09
And it just was like, oh, and a light bulb went off because we found it very, very challenging to work with a vendor or worked with a partner to, to fulfill that service. And so we’re like, okay, well, maybe we can do that for you guys and maybe we can do that for the next one. And then it snowballed into what we have today.
00:09:05:09 – 00:09:30:17
But really what it comes down to is like most people, most agency owners in particular, they they get their teams wrong. Like, I don’t know how else to say it like they because you haven’t built it and you haven’t tried all the different angles. There’s still a lot of room for improvement in most teams. There are exceptions to that, but we worked with 200 plus agency owners at this point, and I can tell you that nobody’s got a perfect no.
00:09:30:17 – 00:09:49:03
I mean, we don’t even have a perfect but like there’s a lot of room for improvement in most agencies. Yeah I find that as well, you know working with agencies one on one. And a lot of times you know we’ll figure out the systems piece and we’ll figure out the scalability piece, the mindset comes from leadership. But the leadership has to be applied towards people.
00:09:49:05 – 00:10:13:11
And a lot of times what we’re figuring out is that there’s a mismatch based around right people. Right seats are they’re like hiring employees for temporary work or they’re doing like these like really fundamental concepts of hiring, training and managing people. Wrong. Or they’re avoiding different crucial conversations and things like that. And so, yeah, it’s a it’s definitely something that is need out there.
00:10:13:11 – 00:10:37:17
And I guess one of the things that would be really interesting and we’re going to go totally off this we had before, but when you’re sourcing talent and you’re talking about this in this tier approach, where you have the strategists up top and the execution teams, you know, working under the strategist, what is one of the maybe the first things that you do is you assess what is that executional role.
00:10:37:19 – 00:10:58:05
And how do we get that that person to be more strategic, like, can you walk us through a little bit more of your process and how you think about that? Yeah, absolutely. And I think it comes down to the agency itself. So like some agencies are very they’re focused on a single discipline. You know, you might have the SMA model or, you know, focus on SEO or just search in general or something like that.
00:10:58:05 – 00:11:22:03
So you might just have like one strategist if it’s a smaller agency or what, where it’s the founder, the owner. And so like oftentimes that person is doing a lot of things. It could be done by somebody for 15 bucks an hour. And I think that that’s one of the things that one of the points I want to clarify here is like when we talk about offshore talent, a lot of times people get this misconstrued, but like, I want them to just go hire a bunch of BS and they’re just going to do their grunt work.
00:11:22:05 – 00:11:44:09
I’m talking about the tier in between the high level strategist and the low level grunt worker. Like, this is somebody who’s a specialist, who’s studied this discipline for years and practiced it, and they’ve gotten really good at it. So if you’re in the SMA space, like this, could be an expert media buyer, just not to the expert level of your strategist or of you, if you were the strategist in this case.
00:11:44:11 – 00:12:02:06
And so that’s one of the things I want to clarify is like we’re not placing 5 or $6 Vas. Like that’s not a that that’s not a solution for most problems. There’s a, there’s a place for them. There’s a time and a place for, for a low level people. But there are other. There’s a tier in the middle that most people overlook.
00:12:02:06 – 00:12:17:13
And I think that that’s one of the things that I really like to enlighten people about is that, like, there are really good, really high return on investment talent out there, and it’s really worth taking the time to find those people because those are the needle movers. Those are the some of the biggest levers that I think you can pull.
00:12:17:15 – 00:12:44:08
And so to answer your question, when it comes down to assessing what we’re looking for and who to hire and what we’re going to hand off and things like that, I actually have this concept of basically it’s a Venn diagram. And when you’re looking at a discipline like media buying, for example, you’ve got your strategic media buyer on one side and then you’ve got the the junior member of the media buyer and the other, and then what we look at is where do those skill sets overlap.
00:12:44:10 – 00:13:06:08
So we’re good. That person, the lower level person, you know, what are the things that in the middle that both people can do. And those are that’s the low hanging fruit that needs to be delegated almost immediately. Because those are if somebody else could be doing it and they’re charging, you know, a quarter or less of what the strategist level person is, or, you know, if you were the strategist, your your time is worth a lot more than that, you know, 15 bucks an hour.
00:13:06:10 – 00:13:30:01
So if there’s a there’s a segment in the middle where we usually like to focus. And those are, those are the immediate things where there’s already a skill set there to just assume what that person is doing. And so like I actually go through this exercise with clients and I have them look at what they’re doing on a day to day basis, week to week basis, and then just identify where is their overlap between what they’re doing and this person’s skill set.
00:13:30:03 – 00:13:46:19
And so that’s one of the first things. And then everything that’s left on the strategist side typically ends up in three buckets. So it’s going to be something that you keep. Because sometimes the strategist needs to be on the strategist and they just keep things. Then there are things that you can train, and that’s going to be stuff that you do over time.
00:13:46:21 – 00:14:07:17
And then there are things where you can just hand it off and expect them. That that give them an opportunity to just figure it out because they’re smart and capable people. And so, as you might imagine, we work from the bottom up. So the next year over, as soon as we’ve got the things handed off that are and there’s an immediate overlap, then we look at, well, what are the things we can just let them take a swing at it and see if they can just figure this thing out.
00:14:07:22 – 00:14:26:13
So those things get handed off next. And then you work on the things that you can train. And those are like by the time that you have those first two buckets, hand it off. Then you’ve got time to train that individual. Then you’ve got time to spend, you know, one on one with them. Do the SOPs, help them understand the theory that you’re implementing here, why you’re making the decisions you’re making.
00:14:26:13 – 00:14:41:16
Because the more you can, you can hand out, excuse me, the more time you could spend with the individual, the more non knowledge transfer that takes place, the more they’re actually going to be able to to support you long term. So and the more engaged they are you know the deeper that they get into the mix, usually the more they engage they are the more invested in their success.
00:14:41:16 – 00:15:06:07
So I hope that’s not too convoluted an answer, but that’s actually the process that we work through. Most times it’s like start with with what’s easiest and work your way backwards. I love it. Yeah that that’s awesome. What the Venn diagram reminds me of one of the processes that we have for agencies are similar where basically the position or the role is documented based around processes and tasks.
00:15:06:07 – 00:15:26:16
And then you figure out what tasks are low risk and maybe easier to delegate. And you move those over and you systematically are going through that process. We also have like an onboarding plan that’s based around exposure. And, you know, awareness and then practice and then getting them to be independent and you have a time frame based around it in a very similar way.
00:15:26:16 – 00:15:53:11
But I like how you’re using like the Venn diagram and the crossover as well as the the strategy behind it. Thanks. Yeah. And I’m one of the things that I always love about anybody that, you know, we, we connect with via you or just working with you in general is that when somebody understands the has the support in the processes in identifying what those opportunities are for things, a handoff, it just makes our job that much easier because we can, you know, oftentimes we can help put the right person in place.
00:15:53:11 – 00:16:21:01
But sometimes people have a hard time letting go or understanding what they’re like first. And having somebody like yourself to really help them understand where to, you know, where the leverage exists. Like that’s that’s always a big win for us. So yeah, thanks. Thanks for that, by the way. Yeah, totally. Yeah. One of the things that is very interesting about founder growth, at least with the the stage of business that we work with, is there is a mindset where, you know, what got you here won’t get you there.
00:16:21:01 – 00:16:40:23
And that’s one of the things that we we drill into agency owners a lot because maybe if you’re like most agency founders, you’re the one who does the work, you’re the subject matter expert, and everything is centralized around you. Right? But the that hustle gets you to a certain point. And usually people crack around the 10,000 to 20,000 a month.
00:16:41:00 – 00:17:01:22
It’s like very consistent where they have to figure out something different. And when you look at like systems and people, it’s the switch is actually a mindset switch from centralizing the business model to a more of a decentralized business model. But I know that you’re a big proponent of based around the conversations that have, you know, entrepreneurship and freedom and creating freedom.
00:17:01:22 – 00:17:23:14
And the only way to do that is to decentralize it. So I guess when I’m looking at that decentralization piece, there’s a mindset component to it. And have you seen this before where I think that you just mentioned something very similar to this, where founders have a hard time letting go? Absolutely. I think that that’s not it’s not unique to the agency world.
00:17:23:14 – 00:17:46:08
I think that just as entrepreneurs, we want the best for our business, about the best for our clients. We want the best thing in general. And so there’s this misconception that oftentimes we can only do some of these things or we, you know, it can only be done well if we do it. And I think that that is absolutely something that you have to prove wrong to yourself before you can really you know, it.
00:17:46:10 – 00:18:05:14
It’s a nice concept, but you have to actually see it in practice before you start to really live and breathe that. And so what I’ve seen with most people is like that. One of the reasons we start with the lower or lower hanging fruit is because when somebody sees a win, then it builds momentum to get them to hand off more and more and more when it and when you can establish that trust over time.
00:18:05:16 – 00:18:27:18
Then usually you get to see that firsthand. And like your belief systems change abandoned. Even if you’re pretty rigid in your belief systems, you can’t, you know, can’t dispute the evidence. But yes, absolutely, it is a problem for most entrepreneurs, especially if they haven’t had taken the time to invest in building teams and delegating and building systems that allow you to delegate.
00:18:27:20 – 00:18:49:04
You end up in a situation where oftentimes you have a negative reinforcement loop, a negative feedback loop, because you’ve tried half assed half heartedly and you failed usually. Or you can, but you put it in the wrong person’s hands and you failed, and you just snatch it back versus trying to course correct and actually help them be successful in that role, or find the right person that might be successful.
00:18:49:06 – 00:19:07:08
Oftentimes what I find is that there’s this like little bit of give and then all of a sudden and if something doesn’t go quite right, they snatch it back and they pull it back in. And that’s the behavior where as you know, you know, if you have that, if you don’t give it a chance and you don’t continue to try to solve the problem, you’re never going to be able to do it.
00:19:07:08 – 00:19:29:18
So it’s one of those things where, like anything else, getting stuck is usually our own fault. Like, we we don’t give it enough of a chance to be successful, and then we end up in a position where we are quote unquote stuck because we aren’t willing to go outside of our comfort zone again. yeah, we are.
00:19:29:19 – 00:19:54:00
We’re very aligned on it. The one of the interesting things that you had said, I think a lot of people miss, especially if it’s if it’s their first agency or first founder, first time trying to grow a team. I’m remembering this because I just had a discovery call with somebody that was at this moment. But is they they rush to hiring, so they hire fast as opposed to hiring slow.
00:19:54:02 – 00:20:21:17
And then what they’ll do is they’ll they’ll say, okay, here’s your here’s your role, here’s your job description. Go do it. And there’s like this assumption that they’ll know everything right from the get go. And one of the biggest things that I’m a big proponent of, I’ve been a trainer since like even before I was 16. And then like every single role, I’ve always been a trainer in training and setting people up for success and creating the environment for people to succeed.
00:20:21:19 – 00:20:39:18
Here’s one of the things that seems to be skipped a lot, especially with people in that earlier stage. And this is part of the reason why I think that. And building at least initial systems before hiring is actually a better strategy. it makes it so that you can focus on systems and getting everything out of your head.
00:20:39:20 – 00:21:01:19
But what you had said, it was really, really important where you’re looking at that Venn diagram, you’re finding the things that can be delegated right away, and then that time that’s freed up, you help build, SOPs. can you talk a little bit about maybe, maybe not necessarily the importance of that, but like, why is that built into your system or why is that or why is that important for you?
00:21:01:21 – 00:21:16:23
I think that first and foremost, it’s important for people to understand what they want out of their business. I think there’s a lot of people that would be happy. You know, it’s a little lifestyle business. They want a few contractors and they can have very simple systems stuff where they’re only going to hand off so much either because that’s what they want.
00:21:16:23 – 00:21:39:00
Maybe they want they want to get to 20 or $30,000 a month, and that’s good for them. And I think that operating very lean and operating in that with that mindset is there’s nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Right? So I think that number one, understanding what you want, but like there are a lot of people that think they want seven and eight figure businesses and if I’m honest, like I think most people that’s a that’s a misconception.
00:21:39:00 – 00:21:58:15
Most people do not want to run a built in eight figure business. It’s a two commitment, but there’s there’s a couple quotes here. There’s two that come to mind. Number one is, you know, I’ve got a buddy, Jason Long, and he has a quote, which is and I don’t know if this is his or somebody else’s, but basically great leaders build great leaders or great leaders make great leaders.
00:21:58:15 – 00:22:28:11
And I think that what that what even where that ties to lower level roles and, you know, part time fractional resources and things like that, like you want to be able to empower people to make decisions and solve problems and have those critical thinking skills to actually take charge and own some of the piece of the machine. and then there’s I forget the guy’s name, but the guy who wrote the motive, it’s Patrick Lincoln or something like that, but he has a concept where the CEO is really the CRO, the chief reminding officer.
00:22:28:17 – 00:22:50:05
And so it’s like the our, our whole management style as we shift into becoming leaders versus the execution teams versus the doers needs to needs to change. And, you know, we need to really spend our time empowering other people to be successful in those positions. Otherwise, if everything remains up here, then there’s never we’re never going to be able to set that person up for success.
00:22:50:05 – 00:23:10:00
And so I think that one of the big mindset shifts that I see in people is where they stop being the and I’ll be all I do, everything I make, all the decisions. You guys just do the execution to really empowering people to see why they make the decisions that they make and why they would do this differently, and why they would make this, make this choice next time, regardless of what discipline.
00:23:10:00 – 00:23:41:08
You know, it doesn’t matter if this is an, you know, your operations, if it’s in SEO, or if it’s in social media or if it’s in whatever. I think that if you find the right person that you can invest in and they’re going to invest back in you and they’re going to help build the business with you, it’s your duty to empower them to, you know, to the best of your abilities to take more and more of that responsibility over time and take more ownership for that being, you know, being successful in that role over time versus just being the person that gets handed tasks and then hands back up and now an output of
00:23:41:08 – 00:23:59:05
some sort. I think that that’s one of the big things that I like to see people go through is like, move away from the the execution hub and into really a position of leadership and of of being a proper CEO, a proper founder. One of the things that we teach when it comes to leadership and vision is that switch and the difference between management and leadership.
00:23:59:11 – 00:24:24:22
And with management, you’re so focused around telling the how and the when. And with visionary leadership, you’re more focused on selling the what and the why. And it’s the and these slight differences in how you approach work. one of the things that, one of my clients I went through that I remember and she was like, we had we were spinning our wheels were constantly focused around tasks.
00:24:24:22 – 00:24:42:13
And there’s a never ending task list. And then. But I’m getting burnt out because this is this is getting to a point where I’ve been in the business for 20 years, haven’t figured out how to scale, invested tons of money into these things, and I just keep on reinventing the wheel. And she goes, she gave me a during a sales call.
00:24:42:15 – 00:25:03:08
she gave me six months turn her business around, or she was going to shut it down. And I was like, okay. And we started going into it and I started realizing what she was doing was she was delegating tasks for not roles. And then she didn’t have a reason for the teams to to unite under something. Right?
00:25:03:08 – 00:25:23:14
They were all just like based around the work as opposed to something a little bit deeper, more stronger y. And one of the things that can happen within a founder is that unlocking from like management and then doing the work into the more of like systems, the reason why systems and people are so important is because it actually sets you up to lead.
00:25:23:16 – 00:25:40:22
And when you get to a point where you’re leading, then you can focus on the vision. And one of the greatest things was when she doubled her business in six months and she didn’t shut it down. And then she got acquired. And the reason why she got acquired was, is that her team basically took over the whole thing.
00:25:40:22 – 00:26:04:05
You’re talking about empowering people. And it was based around this, this and understanding that they’re not just doing tasks, they’re hitting targets. And it’s a there’s a slight difference between those things. But I think that that empowerment that you were just talking about, if it if it can be aligned in an organization and there’s like an organizational focus and a vision and a target that the people are going after.
00:26:04:07 – 00:26:29:16
then that role, the chief reminding officer that that role starts actually becoming very real. Yeah, absolutely. And what I was saying is that I’m extremely guilty of just handing off tasks and like, not being clear about my vision, like I’ve, we’ve all done that. Like there’s one of the things that I want to make very, very clear is that it’s okay to mess up, like it’s okay to make mistakes.
00:26:29:16 – 00:26:47:07
No, you’re not going to get all these things down and get them down perfectly. Like, or don’t feel guilty about doing these things that we’re talking about. It’s just about like, how can you gently move yourself towards aligning with being the leader and being the person that is conducting the orchestra versus doing, you know, just the the day to day grind, just to keep the machine moving.
00:26:47:08 – 00:27:04:12
One of the things that that came up for me when you were talking was like, we talked about one of the first things we delegate or just the immediate things are low hanging fruit. There’s an existing skill set there to support those items. The next piece is trying to identify what things can. Can you just say, hey, I want you to figure this out.
00:27:04:14 – 00:27:26:04
And one of the ways that we go about doing that just said, look, this is the end goal. This is an example of what I want you to look like. Get it there and like just figure it out, you know, Google, YouTube, whatever you have to do. And I think that we also take that to the next level, like we want them to see what the end, the desired outcome of the task is, but also what is the result that that achieves for the client or for whatever we’re working towards?
00:27:26:04 – 00:27:45:07
Because I think that that’s one thing that a lot of agency owners miss is like clearly communicating what we want to help that client achieve. You know, if we’re working on a client account, for example, what do we want for that client? Where are they going? How do we see them getting there? And how are you involved in that process, not just as an individual but as a part of a collective, holistic team?
00:27:45:12 – 00:28:05:09
This all moving all these different pieces towards that desired end state. And so I think that you’re right, like there’s, a vision that you have to maintain not only for your organization, but like for all the things that your team’s involved in. Yeah, I’m thinking about that. The leadership component, the visionary component. And a lot of times people are too close to the trees to see the forest.
00:28:05:11 – 00:28:35:22
And a lot of times they’re they’re doing the work. And the reason why you don’t have a vision for the future is because you’re so focused on whatever you’re going to do for that client in the next week or day or hour. And when you start to maybe work with heroes and sidekicks and start freeing up time and delegating tasks and freeing up time for just space and like clarity, you know, and when you can slow down enough and to understand that there needs to be a vision that everybody can unite on.
00:28:36:00 – 00:28:56:11
And one of the things that happens when people have that space and they’ve created that time to just work on the business and as opposed to in it and all the other concepts around it, a lot of times they realize that in order for them to achieve the vision that they start to have, they have to become somebody different.
00:28:56:13 – 00:29:19:08
And sometimes that becoming part is going from the person who does the work all the time to managing, and then those that manage and then all of a sudden become more of a leader and, I think that the, the hiring of people, the delegation system, the, the training, the organization all set up for vision and the vision sets up for alignment.
00:29:19:08 – 00:29:39:00
And the alignment is all going to be based around what development does the founder have to go through to become that new version of themselves? sometimes people don’t even think about themselves as a CEO. Right. They’ll use that term. I’m a I’m a CEO of a company and I’m like, okay, and how big is your company to be the like?
00:29:39:00 – 00:29:59:17
Well, I’m I’m also, you know, to blame with that as well. We have a lean team. But one of the things that unlocked and maybe this that whole lean team concept is another thing we could unpack as well. but even just looking at the way that you described Lean In as lean holding you back, that was one of your, your videos.
00:29:59:17 – 00:30:18:03
And it actually resonated with me because I tell people and I help agencies grow, and now I’m starting to grow my team as well, you know, which is exciting. But that did resonate with me. And if anybody else is, that’s listening here, has a small team and they want to grow. They want to hire people and build systems and things like that.
00:30:18:09 – 00:30:54:13
I would highly suggest starting that process of looking at that, those basic skills. What what are some low risk skills that you can either delegate or find somebody to help. And then if it resonates, heroes and sidekicks, it seems like it’s a it would be a good fit. Thanks, Jesse. Yeah, I’m with you 100%. And I think that one of the things that a lot of people get stuck on is that sometimes the term contract to expand comes to mind often for me, because sometimes you get up to like, you know, you’re doing 30 grand a month and you’re at like pretty, pretty significant, profitable.
00:30:54:15 – 00:31:12:10
And but you’re at you’ve hit a ceiling and it’s like, okay, I mean, maybe that’s all you want, but maybe if you really, really do want to hit that seven figure goal or whatever it is, sometimes you’re going to have to sacrifice that profitability and that comfort, and you’re going to have to dismantle things, build those systems, and take yourself to that next level.
00:31:12:10 – 00:31:34:23
Because it’s it’s not going to be dependent on the same people, the same mechanisms to get you there. But like one of the things you brought up earlier is like, what got you here won’t get you there. It’s the very same thing. The biggest source of discomfort for most people is that oftentimes they go from having you have very lean team, very good margins, and they’re sitting pretty and very comfortable.
00:31:35:01 – 00:31:56:02
In order to really build out that more robust infrastructure, you have to have certainly the client acquisition channels, but you have to also be able to afford to pay a team. And that’s one of the things that I think that most people get hung up on is when it comes time to build the team out, that’s going to do that’s really going to take over a lot of fulfillment activities.
00:31:56:04 – 00:32:12:22
You sit on the fence like, well, I got my lean model very profitable over here. It’s working. But like over here there’s like there’s this big chasm that you have to bridge and it doesn’t have to be done overnight. That’s one of the things that I really liked about what you shared was like, slow is one of my favorite words.
00:32:12:22 – 00:32:29:17
Space is one of my favorite words. Giving people like, you don’t have to just throw money and people at your problems in order to get there tomorrow. I think that that’s one of the biggest lessons that I learned in my agencies. And just as an entrepreneur in general, is like, you know, hormones. He talks about having extending your time horizons.
00:32:29:17 – 00:32:51:02
And I, I definitely resonate with that. I don’t, you know, there are things that I disagree with, but in terms of just like seeing this as a long term game, seeing this is something where rather than focusing on where you’re going to be at in 12 months, like where are you going to be in 12 years? You know, those are the things that I like to look at because most agency owners, like most of the folks you work with, they’re not like retiring anytime soon.
00:32:51:02 – 00:33:16:06
You know, they’ve got plenty of runway ahead of them. I think that that’s one of the things that most entrepreneurs, myself included, we all want our goals delivered tomorrow. And so, like if you’re sitting pretty, if you’re comfortable giving yourself that space and that runway to get there is going to relieve a lot of the pressure and anxiety, and it’s also going to minimize the opportunity or the chances of doing as many things wrong as you could, as possible.
00:33:16:07 – 00:33:50:17
Because if you rush through things, it is very, very likely that things will break and you will learn the hard way. Whereas if you can just give yourself a little bit more space and a little bit more time, oftentimes you can get there without as much collateral damage. That leads to a question. If you were to boil it all down into maybe get anywhere from 1 to 3 things that that somebody that’s listening to this could focus on, give them more of what they would want and what would you what would you tell them to focus on?
00:33:50:19 – 00:34:09:20
That’s a really, really good question. And so I think that there are a couple things that the the point that I just made is one of my biggest personal takeaways, like giving yourself time and space, such a huge deal very few of us actually give ourselves. Like if we have time and space, we feel it. And I’m guilty of that.
00:34:09:20 – 00:34:31:19
Like, don’t get me wrong. But if I can, if I can really encourage anybody to do something out there, it’s just moving a little bit more slowly and methodically and that way you can just deliver quality regardless. If you’re working on yourself or working on your business or working on working for clients. the second concept for me is going to be just not being afraid to take chances and fail.
00:34:31:19 – 00:34:47:19
Like I used to be such a perfectionist that I would like it. This this concept gets, you know, beaten over the head, but people get beaten over the head with it. But at the same time, I don’t think enough people actually listen to it and pay attention to it. But like I used to have everything dialed in and everything in order.
00:34:48:01 – 00:35:07:15
And for me, like sometimes you just got to build a plan while you’re flying it and like it. Those those moments where I can’t see how I’m going to get to the other side of the chasm. But I know that with my team and myself and my skills, I’m most likely going to get there. And just being able to just take that very first step and then the brave next step, and then the brave next step after that.
00:35:07:17 – 00:35:27:05
Those are the things that I think a lot of people get hung up on, too. It’s like as an entrepreneur, your risk tolerance needs to be pretty high. And I think that sometimes when we’ve taken that initial phase of risk, we’ve gotten to a certain state of comfort. We don’t necessarily want to jump in and take more risk.
00:35:27:05 – 00:35:46:07
And I’m not saying that you have to take it all over again and just, you know, risk burning it all down. But sometimes stepping outside of your comfort zone and being a little bit more risk tolerant again, to get you to that next piece is what’s required. And then the other thing is just like giving yourself credit for all, all that you’ve done and how far you’ve come, because most people are only focused on what they haven’t achieved yet.
00:35:46:09 – 00:36:08:17
And so many of us have done so many cool things, both personally and professionally, that we do not give ourselves credit for. And I think that just if you’ve ever heard of Dan Sullivan, Doctor Benjamin Hardy gap in the game, that’s a great book. Just to fill all that concept into one one nice, easy read that. Give yourself some credit because you’re a pretty awesome person regardless of where you’re at in your journey.
00:36:08:19 – 00:36:14:17
And I think that most of us need a reminder to recognize that from time to time.
00:36:14:19 – 00:36:48:11
Self-love as an entrepreneur. Yeah, what a concept, right? Yeah. easy to easy to talk about. Hard to put it into practice. Absolutely. Yeah. But, I love that you’re able to boil it all down. I keep on thinking about different pieces to this whole puzzle. And then, you know, one of the things that you had you had said in the first agency was that you had, grown the revenue and the people where in their first agency you had grown, not only the employees, but also the revenue.
00:36:48:11 – 00:37:17:11
And then you realized that what you were taking home or the profit margin, actually enabling the profit margin, but the the total profit was basically the same between the six figure with the two and seven figure with 36. And so one of the things that I would just based around your story, one of the things I would have the audience also look at is when you’re looking at growth, to not just look at revenue and not also just look at, team size, but more profitability.
00:37:17:11 – 00:37:43:09
And then also that freedom component. I think the reason why you become an entrepreneur is that you, desired something. Sometimes it’s to scale the business, sometimes it’s to sell the business. Sometimes it’s actually just to have the business support you. I’m reminded of one of my, one of my good clients, Mike. And when I first started talking with them, I was like, why did you start the agency for.
00:37:43:09 – 00:38:02:22
And he’s like, I don’t want to spend time with my kids. And I was like, where are you at right now? And he’s like 12 to 14 hour days, 6 or 7 days a week. I was like, shit. And we had to work through this process. And then once he was able to have more freedom and within about six weeks, we narrowed it down to a 40 hour workweek, and he had the weekends free and then he also quadrupled his business.
00:38:03:00 – 00:38:22:18
It came from that that understanding and that goal towards freedom. And so the other thing that I want people to think of after this, this episode, is to start looking at what is success for you. Yeah. Like you talked about the 12 years. Don’t look at 12 months. Look at 12 years. Like what would be success for you.
00:38:22:19 – 00:38:48:05
And don’t always associate it based around comparisons. That’s another thing that we’ve talked about a lot. But what is that for you and how can you actually create an environment for that to happen naturally? yeah, I love that. Yeah, I’m second and third and fourth that all the way. You know, that’s too few people. I’ve talked about this openly often, but I chased other people’s goals for a long time.
00:38:48:10 – 00:39:08:08
I didn’t look at my why, and that’s I had to work really hard to realign my business with why I wanted to be an entrepreneur in the first place. And so I’m 100% behind you in that one. Awesome. Well, again, we can talk for hours, but for anybody that’s that’s listening that either wants to learn more about heroes and sidekicks are in touch with you.
00:39:08:13 – 00:39:34:02
What’s the best way for people to get in touch with you. So we’re going to link some of my social down down below in the show notes I believe, and I think that’s a great thing because I’d like to be like, I’d like to help people solve problems. So if you shoot me a DM and ask me a question, I will most likely try to help you with that, even if we’re not working together in any capacity, because I’ve learned too many things the hard way, and I’d love to help other people not learn so hard.
00:39:34:04 – 00:39:52:11
and then if there’s something where there’s a direct resonance between what you’re looking for in Heroes and Sidekicks, take a look at the website Heroes and Psychics. I know you’ll start to see or agency psychic style as well. That’s actually the one that’s really focused around all the things that that everybody listening will be wanting to pay attention to.
00:39:52:13 – 00:40:10:10
And what I, what I can say is, like, I really like to to build relationships, move slowly and see what we can do to help people. And so the quote unquote sales or discovery call is oftentimes us just saying, no, this is not the right time to work with you because here’s the right solution for this. So those are always good things.
00:40:10:10 – 00:40:27:22
I’ve got myself in one person on the team that does that. And I’m always like, I always enjoy meeting people because oftentimes we’ll talk to somebody. And then six months there’s a client that recently came on board. We first talked to, 18 months ago. Like they just weren’t ready, you know, and, and and sometimes you just got to play the long game.
00:40:27:22 – 00:40:45:22
And so I’m always here to help. So just hit me up and we’ll see what we can do. Awesome. Yep. So I’ll leave all the links to Nick and Heroes and Sidekicks in the show notes below. And Nick I’m super excited for our part two. That will happen eventually. But thank you so much for being on the show today.
00:40:46:00 – 00:41:13:22
Absolutely. Thank you for having me. This is that is a ton of fun. And like I said, I, I enjoy talking about this stuff. So this is this is something I’ll be happy to come back anytime you have any both agency owners, if you want to transform your agency to sustain and grow without your direct involvement, where you can stop working in the business and start working on the business where you can free up your time, delegate work more effectively, price and position your services to finally get paid for what you’re worth, and have the team run the day to day.
00:41:13:23 – 00:41:32:04
Go to niche and control.com/case study now to learn more about leverage for growth, and also to book a free strategy session with us. We’ll look at your systems, determine exactly what you need to do in order for you to scale this year, and to create a strategic plan so that you can live the life of entrepreneurship you’ve always dreamed about.
00:41:32:06 – 00:41:47:20
Go to Niche In control.com/case study. Now.
Transcripts are auto-generated and may contain errors.
